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ras-saadon
Raw Newbie
I had a “discussion”(he was going all out on me, your not eating anything anymore, its not healthy bla bla bla) anyway he did ask a question I didn’t really have an answer too, its obvious that raw food is much more nutritious, easy to digest and healthy, but aside from burdening our digestive system is cooked food really harmful?
Jah Bless, Ras Saadon.
Comments
Do some internet searches for acrylamide in cooked food, acrylamide is a deadly poison and forms in foods cooked at high temps, i.e. like baking, roasting etc. I’m sure others on here will happily give you more examples of cooked food badness…
If you are into charts for showing comparisons of nutritional content of raw-vs-boiled-vs-canned, see Souci SW, Fachmann W, Kraut Food Composition and Nutrition Tables. 6th revision ed. CRC Press: Boca Raton, Fla., 2000. If you can’t find the article, email me and I’ll send you a link to the presentation that I found the reference in.
You can also find great info on Zoe’s and Chris’s site.
If the person is open to information, then these resources might be useful. If not, you could knock him over the head with the most compelling info and it will just be a waste of energy.
EDIT:Lately, I’ve been looking at conversations I am having. I’ve noticed that many feel very unsatisfactory, like nothing is actually being accomplished. I am noticing where I am open to information and where I’m not… and looking whether the other person is open to information or not. I’m committing to having conversations where all parties are open to information.
To your wellness…
well, the reason it’s harmful is because it does burden the digestive system. If your colon is inactive throughout your life because you ate cooked food (primarily meat) bacteria will collect and later cause colon cancer. This is rare if your vegetarian, but possible. When you eat mucous forming foods, (cooked foods) your lymph nodes become clogged with mucous and can’t empty any toxins out. The mucous collects over time and can cause all sorts of mutations to create cancer, while the oil from fried foods coats your GI tract with oil that may seem to help empty things out but only partially.
After a short search it appears you are indeed right, very harmful chemical associated with many types of cancer and other illness’s, but they did they it doesn’t appear in boiling, in frying, baking,roasting and basicly all types of heating besides boiling it does, so boiled is not harmful? just less nutritious?
By the way a very long list of facts and FAQ I actually found in the world health association, I’m amazed that such a harmful chemical that is known to exist in cooked food to scientist, doctors and the food industry has so little awareness in the general public, I was really amazed by how dangerous it is.
Jah Bless, Ras Saadon.
Bluedolfin, my father is far far from open to information where it concerns me and health, he trust blindly the doctors and medicine industry, since I went organic&vegan, it feels like he has made himself a target to prove me wrong, and no matter how many facts I shown him, no matter how many tv programs he seen(lately there have been tons talking about the importance of organic food, about the dangers of the chemical people use on daily base and about how destructive “medicines” are) he simply refuse to believe I have a healthy diet and he is completely certain I am wrong, oh well, I stopped caring about what other people think long time ago, I just hope for he’s sake that he will see the truth soon.
P.S sending an email to purple_obiat@yahoo.com doesnt work, says email doesnt exist.
Jah Bless, Ras Saadon.
ras-saadon~ Sorry to hear about the conflict you and your father are having. It’s tough sometimes. Most likely your father is concerned about your well-being and/or is fearful of not being the “authority” on all issues… it might be tough seeing a child grow beyond “needing” a parent or is “better” then a parent. On your end, it might be an issue of independence or being “taken seriously” or as an “adult.” There might also be other issues that is driving the discourse with your father. I have only questions (frustrations and sadness) and not answers about this power struggle between child and parent. :(
To send me an email, just take out the word “at” in the email addy and just use the “at” symbol. That should work. :) Looking forward to receiving an email from you. :)
I think that heated fats in foods are the worst culprit. This is how a local registered dietitian described it to me. We make billions of new cells everyday to replace those that have died. The walls of cells are made up of fatty acids. These walls make up the integrity of the cells and serve as the brain of the cell letting in nutrients and excreting waste. When you ingest damaged fats those walls of the new cells are damaged. They do not work well and contribute greatly to poor health. Sense most of my body will be replaced in two years; I am very diligent about only ingesting raw fat. Even regular cold pressed olive oils in the store are not raw nor are most coconut oils in the marketplace. You must seek those out and make an informed purchase. It is my opinion that this is very important. The body you build today will be your friend in the future or your grief depending on your choices today.
Here is a link to the ‘What’s Wrong with Cooked Food? section on my website. There’s a few pages.
http://rawforlife.co.uk/cooked_food.html
Get him the DVD set of The China Study…
There was a study done in the 1930’s were they drew the blood of a study group before eating and again after eating… The blood work showed a leukcyte response (increased white blood cells) After realizing how interesting that the body sends out soldiers (white cells) to attack the enemy (meal) so they did more studies but divided the group into two groups and repeated the test…
Group one was fed cooked foods for their meal and Group 2 was fed raw foods… Group two did NOT have a leukocyte response… Every repeat of this study gave the same results… Extremely interesting don’t ya think??? Our bodies treat cooked food as an invader which makes our bodies work even harder, digestion, cleaning out and rejuvenating and making new cells…
ras-saadon Yes, buy “The China Study” it is proper up to date scientific research on diet and nutrition. However, the “enzyme” work of Howell, Pottengers cat research and the digestive leukocytosis work of Kouchakoff are all not to be trusted. All this research was done in the dawn of proper biochemical science, using poor techniques and equipment that is now far out dated. Only Kouchakoff published his work in a peer reviewed scientific journal (peer reviewing of science is the “gold standard” if other scientists read the work, accept that it has been carried out well and the conclusions drawn are justified from the data shown then it can be published, if a scientist can’t get their work published in a peer reviewed journal it has to be assumed that it is because it is not sound science, as a peer reviewed journal is where all scientists would prefer to publish first).
Kouchakoffs work is taken out of context – only 10% raw food needed to be added to a cooked meal to stop the leukocyte response. Also his method was seriously flawed. For a greater analysis of his work see
http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/nat-hyg/index.shtml
Which also explains the enzyme and cat work.
I am 100% for a raw, vegan diet, however, it worries me that some of the arguments used to promote it are based on bad, old science. There is so much new, good science to support RV that we have no need of bad science to support our life style choices. All that happens when we use these arguments is that people who know science think “nutter” and dismiss us competely. I think RV is too important to be pushed aside because people promote it using bad scince.
Hey springleaf,
I’ve read Kouchakoffs work and I did not conclude this 10% only stuff, neither did Kouchakoff.
sorry, I just hate to see that statement go unquestioned. :)
Hi Chris, Do you have the pdf’s for the Kouchakoff work?
I have to admit that I have never read the original papers for that research – primarily because I can’t find them on the net… I would love to read the original research, primary sources are always best. It worries me though that I can find no evidence of his work, or repeats of his experiments. Also as I mentioned above, I would mistrust any biochemical work done from that period that has not been subsequently repeated, techniques and equipment just weren’t very reliable in those days.
I agree lulush about the issue of binging on fake raw foods. (haha) I know watcha mean. :) the only thing pretty much I eat is raw aged nut cheese that isn’t really that bad (it’s more digestible than regular nuts because it’s cultured). I eat mostly probiotics/microgreens/fresh pineapple, but I agree that too much fruit is also bad. I still eat small amounts of cooked things (like cooked pumpkin puree with maple syrup) which doesn’t do me much bad. I also know a few cooked foodists who eat very well and look good for their age. Stuffing on crackers and nuts, seeds, and grains, and sugar certainly isn’t better than eating some soft cooked cauliflower.
lulushka, I agree with what you are saying, old – not repeated since science should not be trusted. And there are right and wrong ways to go about raw and cooked vegan diets.
I mentioned the china study above as i feel it is an excellent book, founded on hardcore science that backs up the case for a vegan diet, yes I agree that is does not talk about raw v cooked, but still gives you facts to argue the vegan side of RV.
As for the 100% raw V X% raw argument, I agree that people need to find what suits them, some people have a really hard time and fail on 100% and some people thrive on it. Whatever suits the individual best that they can stick to and are happy with is probably better than trying to be 100% and failing and feeling sad about it… It is very important to be happy!
rawkidchef: we posted at the same time… ;-)
Yes :)
p.s. cool kitty
springleaf: thanks! I will update a picture of her when the picture problem is resolved.
lulush, thanks! I’ve been raw pretty much my whole life except for some bits of cooked sprouted bread and things like that, but in the past three years I really haven’t eaten much of anything like that. I actually am homeschooled so I don’t have too much contact with other kids but I do know a few. In ballet I was good friends with a girl who later became a vegetarian after being interested in all my raw food things. I brought in raw chocolate once to see whether the kids in my class liked it and the Russian teacher really loved it, and so did my friend. Also brought in some raw crackers which everyone liked. :)
Although I do love my raw ‘junk food’ from time to time, I do think for me personally a plate of steamed veggies would probably do me more good than that piece of raw pumpkin pie or raw choc brownies. But heck, life is short!
I believe that the attitude we have towards our food is also a contributory factor in how it treats our bodies. I try to have gratitude for everything I eat, whether it’s cooked vegetarian food at a restaurant, a raw dessert or my simple kale salad. And I seem to do better off this way. For me being restrictive about my diet is more harmful. When we feel happy in our lives, our bodies feel happy as well! :-)
It’s my belief that many who failed on 100% were never actually 100% in the first place because of the amount of cooked food being mistaken for raw, especially prior to recently. Now producers and consumers are both more aware of what is raw and what is not, compared to even a year ago.
Staying 100% is difficult if one is still consuming cooked food unknowingly. We tend to crave whatever is in our bloodstream. So if those cooked food chemicals and compounds are in our system then we will want more. As with any addiction, we will then come up with reasons why we need cooked food.
Lulu you are true about the mind being powerful, its also been scientifically proven, called the placebo effect but I disagree on becoming too sensitive, of course if you eat junk then the body get used to it and deal with it better if you are eating good and junk was a 1 timer, but that still doesn’t make it good to eat junk all the time, the fact that we can, doesn’t mean we should, it gets used to it but at the cost of wearing it down faster, of draining the energy of the body, people that live in the big city “get used” to living in stress, pollution, lack of sleep (some at least), they can do ok for sometime but eventually it catches up to them.
Jah Bless, Ras Saadon.
tracking discussion…very convincing for me to go 100 % I’m working towards this…at 90% now
lulushka, don’t worry, I didn’t think your statement came over at all agressively, I could tell it was just a question, also I think you and me have similar views on this thread ;-)
sorry I left out something I always intend to say when this subject comes up and that is..
Diet alone is not enough… Our food intake is Not the source of All of our issues, neither is it the solution.
I don’t think anyone will ever convince me that Any human can NOT be super healthy without eating some cooked food. This just doesn’t make sense.
Lulu, actually I’ve been organic&vegan for almost 4 years before going raw, so I know well cooked beans, rice, lentils ect`, and your claim about raw becoming super sensitive doesn’t make any sense to me.. cooked is fairly new, there were times that humans didn’t have fires or hunting tools(and they were much much much longer then having cooked, part of the reason raw is so much better, we adapted to it for a much longer time), and couldn’t eat anything other then raw so its cooked that is actually the “luxury”, so saying that 100% raw is bad\wrong\cant work just lacks common sense to me.. also from personal experience I can tell you that I feel much better physically&mentally since going raw and dropping cooked beans, rice, lentils, pasta ect`.
And thing is that you don’t have to have a “perfect” diet in order to live long and good, mentality(taking things easy, being relaxed ect`) where you live also has an impact(and many other things), if you are 100% raw but live in New York and breath all that toxic and pollution and live under stress then someone that lives in a far away village in nature&a relaxed mentality and culture but eat some cooked food can actually be healthier, also organic or non organic make a huge impact, eating raw but non organic can be worse then organic and some cooked(in my personal opinion) especially since fresh fruits&veggys has the largest amounts of pesticides, herbicides and other toxic chemicals and they are also less nutrient then organic, so in short its your whole walk of life and not just a single aspect.
Chriscarlton, “I don’t think anyone will ever convince me that Any human can NOT be super healthy without eating some cooked food. This just doesn’t make sense.” I really did try, but was too hard for me to understand :P, please break it down for me :).
Jah Bless, Ras Saadon.
Springleaf
You say that if 10% of raw food is added to cooked food there’s no leukocytosis effect.
If only it were as simple as that…
Kouchakoff found …that when a cooked food is ingested, leukocytosis can be avoided simply by adding about 10% of the same raw food (Kouchakoff 1937, p336)
(Firstly, note ‘same’)
Arthur M Baker MD, in his article ‘Raw Fresh Produce v Cooked Food’ comments on the Kouchakoff experiments: ‘When raw foods were added to the meal, foods cooked in this low temperature range did not cause leukocytosis. At cooked temperatures higher than 190 degrees F, no amount of raw food offset the pathological effects of heating, and leukocytosis always occurred.’
(secondly, note 190 F maximum).
So it would seem that the only ways in which leukocytosis from cooked food can be avoided is if a) the raw food mixed with it is the same food and b) the cooked food is cooked at no higher a temperature than 190 F.
‘white blood cell counting under a microscope’ and ‘units of temperature’ have not changed since the 30’s and if so, certainly not in any way that would discount this simple science.
The site ‘beyondveg’ where much of this naysay comes from is quite a “interesting” place. Have a good read of the whole site before you decide to take it’s summaries to heart.
Everyone really answered this great for you. The best way in this world is to have knowledge of what your doing, because everyone seems to have more. They really don’t they just kind of guess, which is quite easy if you’ve been living a certain way for many many years. If you do your research it will be easy to answer peoples questions, maybe turning them on to a raw diet.
I’ve read most of the posts, but not all of them. Everyone seemed to pull words out of my mouth, besides one thing. When cooking your foods, molecules actually kind of melt together, especially proteins. This process pretty much makes it impossible to break down the nutrients and minerals that your body uses, so most if it just goes to waste! Ha, if they only knew!
i’d say eating mostly raw with occasionally cooked foods is best. i think it’s important to eat 100% vegan for life, for a million reasons! but i think occasionally eating cooked foods is good for you because, well, i can’t say it’s good for bad for you physically, but mentally it’s just nice to snack out on some vegan cookies or sharing a cooked meal with your family every once in awhile! there are a lot of things i like to commit to 100% but raw isn’t one of em. i really don’t wanna discourage anyone, but i feel like sometimes there’s this pressure to be 100% raw 100% of the time but eating cooked foods now and then ain’t gonna kill ya, just eating too much of it is bad. which is why i do 90-95 raw.
Lulu, sorry for misunderstanding what you were saying.
From what I read and understood so far the scientists assume we utilized fire to our needs only about 50.000 years(some say even less) ago, and compering that to the assumption that humans existed for 4 million years then yea, cooked is new and our body is much more adapted to raw.
Jah Bless, Ras Saadon.